Talk:Chinese characters

A request has been made for this article to be peer reviewed to receive a broader perspective on how it may be improved. Please make any edits you see fit to improve the quality of this article.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Chinese characters article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5: 90 days

Chinese characters has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: May 24, 2024. (Reviewed version).

Writing systems Top‑importance

	Writing portal This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Writing systems, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to writing systems on Wikipedia. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project’s talk page.Writing systemsWikipedia:WikiProject Writing systemsTemplate:WikiProject Writing systemsWriting system articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

China Top‑importance

	China portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Southeast Asia Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Southeast Asia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Southeast Asia-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Southeast AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Southeast AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Southeast AsiaSoutheast Asia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

On 30 September 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to Han characters. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Section sizes

Section size for Chinese characters (55 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	6,356	6,356
Development	2,627	2,627
Classification	2,419	15,444
Structural analysis	2,131	2,131
Semantographs	22	4,136
Pictographs	1,609	1,609
Indicatives	779	779
Compound ideographs	1,726	1,726
Phonographs	20	2,278
Phono-semantic compounds	2,258	2,258
Loangraphs	2,004	2,004
Signs	414	414
Traditional Shuowen Jiezi classification	2,062	2,062
History	1,446	21,298
Traditional invention narrative	2,757	2,757
Neolithic	1,317	1,317
Oracle bone script	4,800	4,800
Zhou scripts	2,753	2,753
Qin unification and small seal script	1,065	1,065
Clerical script	2,027	2,027
Cursive and semi-cursive	2,704	2,704
Regular script	2,429	2,429
Structure	3,592	7,868
Variant characters	2,595	2,595
Layout	1,681	1,681
Methods of writing	1,572	9,040
Calligraphy	1,136	1,136
Printing and typefaces	2,208	2,208
Use with computers	943	4,124
Input methods	1,560	1,560
Encoding and interchange	1,621	1,621
Vocabulary and adaptation	5,227	23,638
Literary and vernacular Chinese	3,809	3,809
Japanese	4,147	4,147
Korean	3,764	3,764
Vietnamese	2,905	2,905
Other languages	1,395	1,395
Graphically derived scripts	2,391	2,391
Literacy and lexicography	970	5,139
Dictionaries	2,563	2,563
Neurolinguistics	1,606	1,606
Reform and standardisation	3,897	15,392
People's Republic of China	3,479	3,479
Japan	2,179	2,179
South Korea	2,561	2,561
North Korea	1,449	1,449
Taiwan	797	797
Other regional standards	1,030	1,030
Notes	526	526
References	17	13,809
Citations	45	45
Works cited	13,747	13,747
Further reading	2,144	4,828
Works of historical interest	2,684	2,684
External links	1,035	1,035
Total	127,000	127,000

A fact from Chinese characters appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 June 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that according to legend, the invention of Chinese characters (examples pictured) caused grain to rain from the sky and ghosts and demons to wail in frustration?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/June. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Chinese characters.

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 20:27, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

Oracle bone inscription on an ox scapula, 11th century BCE

... that according to legend, the invention of Chinese characters (oracle bone pictured) caused grain to rain from the sky and ghosts and demons to wail in frustration? Source: According to one tradition, Chinese characters were invented during the 3rd millennium BCE by Cangjie, a scribe of the legendary Yellow Emperor. Cangjie is said to have invented symbols called 字 (zì) due to his frustration with the limitations of knotting, taking inspiration from his study of the tracks of animals, landscapes, and the stars in the sky. On the day that these first characters were created, grain rained down from the sky; that night, the people heard the wailing of ghosts and demons, lamenting that humans could no longer be cheated.^[1]^[2]
- ALT1: ... that the oldest known Chinese characters were recorded on oracle bones (example pictured)? Source: The oldest attested Chinese writing comprises a body of inscriptions produced during the Late Shang period (c. 1250 – 1050 BCE), with the very earliest examples from the reign of Wu Ding dated between 1250 and 1200 BCE.^[3]^[4]
- Reviewed:

Improved to Good Article status by Remsense (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Remsense诉 04:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC).[reply]

I really like that first hook. Article is in great shape and eligible (congrats on the GA, btw), and I was able to confirm the story through Google Books keyword searching. QPQ is not needed. Looks like we're good to go. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 03:05, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh no, I've just realized that I somehow forgot that images need to be used in the article. I chose this one as the oracle bone image used in the article itself actually already appeared on DYK and I didn't think it'd look that good, so I selected another one we've used from Commons. Is there anything elegant I can do here, do you think? Remsense诉 06:20, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Yang, Lihui; An, Deming (2008). Handbook of Chinese Mythology. Oxford University Press. pp. 84–86. ISBN 978-0-195-33263-6.
^ Boltz 1994, pp. 130–138.
^ Boltz, William G. (1999). "Language and Writing". In Loewe, Michael; Shaughnessy, Edward L. (eds.). The Cambridge History of Ancient China: From the Origins of Civilization to 221 BC. Cambridge University Press. pp. 74, 107–108. ISBN 978-0-521-47030-8. Retrieved 3 April 2019 – via Google Books.
^ Liu, Kexin; Wu, Xiaohong; Guo, Zhiyu; Yuan, Sixun; Ding, Xingfang; Fu, Dongpo; Pan, Yan (2021). "Radiocarbon Dating of Oracle Bones of the Late Shang Period in Ancient China". Radiocarbon. 63 (1): 155–175. Bibcode:2021Radcb..63..155L. doi:10.1017/RDC.2020.90.

Amazing hook Remsense! ꧁Zanahary꧂ 20:22, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Be sure to thank TheLonelyPather for both the selection and the general wording!

Remsense诉 03:22, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TheLonelyPather You're a well-regarded king ꧁Zanahary꧂ 03:34, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! 天雨粟鬼夜哭 Cheers, --The Lonely Pather (talk) 08:48, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thank you both, it's definitely one of the best DYKs I saw recently! Artem.G (talk) 07:32, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Potential source?[edit]

TWL's partnership with De Gruyter gives us access to O'Neill, Timothy Michael (2016). Ideography and Chinese Language Theory: A History. Worlds of East Asia, vol. 26. De Gruyter. doi:10.1515/9783110459234. ISBN 9783110459234.

The second half of this source seems like it could be helpful for expanding the section on the traditional 說文解字 classification, and maybe some stuff about the 爾雅. It does talk more about language theory (as foretold by the title) than writing systems, and the book swings wildly into Derrida and Nietzsche at times, but there should be useful information in there, whether for this article or some other one.

Congratulations on the GA and DYK btws! Folly Mox (talk) 21:58, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much Folly, you were a huge help to me, especially in the very early going when I had much less clue what I was doing.

Funny, this was actually one of the first books I read when researching sinograms, and I think that's why I haven't tried to cite it here for some reason. Obviously it's an RS and its claims are not particular to it, in addition to being a book I recommend quite often, so yeah good point! Remsense诉 04:09, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Folly Mox, what do you think needs to be added to this article re: 說文解字? My best attempts to be brief in my post-GA additions still have me butting up under 9600 words, and I wonder if I can keep under 10k in getting the article to FAC-ready state. Remsense诉 13:39, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remsense, I'm acknowledging having read your question here, and I'll do my best to think about it sometime this weekend when hopefully I will have the brainpower for a brief glimmer of intelligence. Folly Mox (talk) 11:56, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Number of characters[edit]

Should the number of Chinese characters be in this article? — VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 13:07, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is not and cannot be a well-defined number as such. Moreover, there are already several points where numbers that answer similar, better-defined questions are given in the article, surely? Remsense诉 14:15, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Yang, Lihui; An, Deming (2008). Handbook of Chinese Mythology. Oxford University Press. pp. 84–86. ISBN 978-0-195-33263-6.

[FOOTNOTEBoltz1994130–138-2] Boltz 1994, pp. 130–138.

[3] Boltz, William G. (1999). "Language and Writing". In Loewe, Michael; Shaughnessy, Edward L. (eds.). The Cambridge History of Ancient China: From the Origins of Civilization to 221 BC. Cambridge University Press. pp. 74, 107–108. ISBN 978-0-521-47030-8. Retrieved 3 April 2019 – via Google Books.

[4] Liu, Kexin; Wu, Xiaohong; Guo, Zhiyu; Yuan, Sixun; Ding, Xingfang; Fu, Dongpo; Pan, Yan (2021). "Radiocarbon Dating of Oracle Bones of the Late Shang Period in Ancient China". Radiocarbon. 63 (1): 155–175. Bibcode:2021Radcb..63..155L. doi:10.1017/RDC.2020.90.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]